I think his assertions are poorly founded that the folks who are most vocal about climate change he uses B. Sanders and AOC as a couple of examples know that if they got everything they demand that the US economy would grind to a halt and that there would be a resulting genocide. Never ascribe to evil awareness what can be explained by ignorant foolishness. But anyway, lots of shouting going on from the Greenies and from folks like Mr.
D, but none of the shouters are really helping to move us towards understanding of, acceptance of, and adaptations to, our predicaments. To adapt words of our esteemed host: there is no brighter future ahead, nor is there an apocalypse. You suggested doing a divination on wether I should start pathworking, and being out of touch with it to lack of practice, I first asked if it was a good idea.
We all enjoy those days of serendipity when we feel charmed. Best thing to do when you find yourself at crosswinds is either stear away or into it if you have the energy. I am contemplating creating instructions for some beginning-level Golden Dawn-based rituals in comic book form. In your opinion, magically or ethically, is there anything against such a project? So far my online research has disclosed only a single short existing work of this nature, presenting basic philosophy and instruction in chaos magic. To RSVP or for questions email doctorwestchester42 gmail.
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Booklover, no, the Axial Age was global, and its end will be global as well. Vince, and a happy Souther to you too! If the Wester mascot gets unusual publicity in turn, yeah, something may be afoot. David BTL, funny. Paul, this makes perfect sense to me. Anyone else?
Aspirant, yep. Yorkshire, thanks for this. Yes, exactly — and that insistence on randomness is part and parcel of the covert insistence on the part of many people these days that they personally are the only active, intelligent, creative beings in an otherwise dead and random cosmos. Nestorian, Denninger is guilty of the same intellectual offenses of which he accuses climate change activists. David, of course! I suspect also that a lot of people are looking at the situation regarding shale oil and the much more robust amounts of shale gas, and thinking that natural gas makes a good fuel for electric power plants so increasing the number of EVs is probably a good idea.
Irena, I had a somewhat different suggestion back in the heyday of my previous blog about the admittedly very odd fit between Ayn Rand and American Christianity. Aronblue, keep us posted! Providence is of course very much on the Amtrak system and I suspect quite a few of us here would be happy to get together with you when you come through this end of the country. Maxine, no, not at all. Manly P. I check each day to see which planets are making aspects to what parts of our natal charts, and make plans from there. Time to get that email sent to a publisher. Mars is square the ruler of my sixth?
Take precautions to avoid catching a cold. As for Pluto, some posts on that are still on the get-to list! Ben, interesting. Are there other fictional portrayals of that sort of future in circulation in Britain just now? NomadicBeer, duly noted. These are mixed in with some outright untruths, or to be as charitable as possible, unsupported and un-referenced claims that contradict real-world measurements.
And a fair number of non sequiturs , claims that even if true, do nothing to dispute anthropogenic climate change. Atmospheric CO2 and global temperature data available for inspection from a variety of reliable sources contradicts these claims. The non sequiturs include that the Thames River froze during the Little Ice Age how does England being colder in the past contradict global climate change happening now and in the future? I got a new phone that tries to guess the rest of the word when you type the first letter.
I said a while back I hoped to have my book on Amazon by Xmas. I was so optimistic I was interviewing bimbos to be on the cover of my book. Disrespect a sitting member of congress and you have disrespected every citizen who voted for that member. There are very conservative districts who routinely elect members whom I dislike, but that is the way our system works.
The fact of the matter, as Republicans love to say, is that his party lost the midterm elections, in many cases, not just the famous four, to smart, capable young women. Oppo research reveals maybe a traffic ticket or two. Also, I think maybe the admin wants to reassure women voters it is Doing Something about sex trafficking. Regular reader, occasional commenter, going anonymous for privacy this time.
Apparently said corporation is highly concerned about imminent US recession. Mind you, I am not much of a media pundit, and could be missing it. Great minds think alike. Everything that I might do in reaction to climate change, I will be doing whether or not climate change is man-made or extraterrestrial. But when we Boomers need to draw down these investments, buyers for future debt may be scarce at any interest rate , and the house of cards blows down. Unlike Ken, I think that stock ownership can be depending on the company a resilient move, because people are always going to need certain kinds of stuff, regardless of the dollars needed to get it.
Unless the company goes bankrupt, of course, a company can have a certain amount of tangible value e. Minimizing dependence on the national-level economy seems like a good move, whether the crisis is climate or finance. Which makes me wonder why everyone continues to flock to the over crowded and over priced coasts? Here you can get a good job, a nice little house that you can actually pay off and own outright.
When I go back to Seattle to visit family things just look worse and worse. But, talking to anyone back there about moving to Wisconsin and you might as well be talking to a wall. I truly do not understand the resistance to moving out of place you can no longer afford and where you hate the crowding and traffic and moving to a place you can afford without the traffic and crowding issues that you hate.
What gives? This Summer, my life has been a bit of a whirlwind and I have an astrological inquiry. Some details: I am married with no children and for the last five years or so our situation has been what can best be described as floating in stasis. Between a chronic illness with no good treatments and a work situation that had us tethered to a region with a super-inflated housing market and thus a choice between commuter hell or unaffordable living, floating stasis became a familiar feeling. Then, about two months ago, everything began to fall in place.
First a new treatment that we were sure would never be approved by our current doctor got the okay. Then an elective surgery to get the treatment rolling, which we were convinced would take months or the better part of a year to get a consultation on, was scheduled just a week after we knew the treatment was even a possibility after a months-in-advance booked doctor had a sudden opening for us, no less. Which brings me to my question. If I were scientifically minded, is it possible to go back several months to consult the star charts to compare notes?
And if not, how do I interpret the last two months? For that matter, how long can I expect the ride to last? Is now the time to put myself and my work out there, try new things, risk more than I normally would or is that a calamitously stupid idea? Thank you for your time and consideration. As an engineer myself, I was chagrined to find the literature on the ways engineers in particular become cranks, spinning complex and internally consistent theories based on flawed assumptions.
Embarrassing though it may be, that phenomenon seems real and I can see my own tendencies toward crank status. So — no, being an engineer is no protection from falling for foolishness. Quite the opposite. Orlov has in addition the burden of certain strains of Russian culture I have observed in many, possibly all, of the Russians I have known — paranoia, a belief in countless conspiracies, and a grudge against the West among them.
It is sad, because in many other ways I have found most of the Russians I have met to be impressive. And Mr Orlov himself has written some wise and mordantly funny things in the past. My imprecise, inchoate beginning is something like this: Under the influence of overwhelmingly solar religious movements including the Radiance!
But it seems to me that this language of darkness muddles together at least two different things. On the one hand, we have the sort of spiritual movements and healing practices around incubation, descent into caves and the bowels of the Earth, and the like, which Peter Kingsley describes so well in In the Dark Places of Wisdom , and related practices in other times and places, which are healing and spiritually enriching. On the other hand, we have practices and beings that I would have to call demonic, involving malevolent beings that ultimately mean humans only harm, and bring misery and suffering.
So my questions are, 1 do you also see this confusion as something present in our cultural conversations, or am I misguided? Thank you! It came at just the right time, and spoke movingly to several deep and pressing concerns. I wonder, though, if an additional factor beyond nasty and dirty energies might be the current Mercury retrograde. Those planetary energies could be another force pushing folks in the direction of car accidents and failures to effectively communicate. Otherwise, certainly have encountered some flaring of tempers, but not all together. Thought the nasty oppressive heat we had recently played into that.
I never thought to link Objectivism to Lovecraftian themes before, but the case could be made that Howard Roarke and John Galt are squamous abominations who have emerged from the cyclopean depths to extinguish the tiny light of human civilization in an uncaring void. On another note, this past Magic Monday, you discussed differences between natural religion and revealed religions. Could it be said that Judaism was once a natural religion, and transitioned to the prophetic mode?
If so, are there any others that have a parallel course of development? I read a comment from you about Islam being the last of the Axial age religions to let go making way for more natural religions. The Quran the Word of God to Muslims; analogous to Christ for Christians , for example, more so than any other scripture, talks about nature. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered. We produce from it greenery from which We produce grains arranged in layers. And from the palm trees — of its emerging fruit are clusters hanging low. And [We produce] gardens of grapevines and olives and pomegranates, similar yet varied.
Look at [each of] its fruit when it yields and [at] its ripening. Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe. Does the company have any idea when this recession might begin? It would be an improvement over the depression the country is in now. I think it would be more accurate to say that Trump has a problem with feminist voters rather than with female voters as a whole.
Nothing Special, it was once a common saying among ethnologists that every taboo must have its exception. The last thing you need is another clueless American telling you what to do, after all…. Some of them have gone mainstream with him, others have retreated to the fringes again — very much as usual. Forecastingintelligence, yep. LaughingSage, excellent! Of course the last energies of the Piscean age are trying to pursue Piscean fantasies of limitless expansion in the teeth of hard Aquarian realities. The Age of Aquarius is not going to be anything like what the fantasies of the Sixties wanted to insist.
As I see it, the Aquarian age began in , and you can judge how Utopian it will be by considering what happened between and As for the egregors of great cultures, of course. Spengler argued that a great culture is permanently linked to the land area where it first emerged, and people in other parts of the world can be influenced by it — the process he called pseudomorphosis — but can never really belong to it.
The collapse of the prestige of science continues apace. Watch for major pushes on all sides to hand social issues back to the states! So far, the Dems are playing into his hand. I just finished The Shoggoth Concerto. There were many things that I did not see coming, the most surprising being that there will be a sequel!
My question is when in your fiction release schedule will the second part come out, before or after Arkham? Your Kittenship, if your phone is already babbling about shoggoths, you can expect it to start invoking Great Cthulhu any day now! Lbikeec, go figure. In Druid terms, the solar current and the telluric current, light and darkness, are both good when in balance, both bad when out of balance. Thank you for your kind words about The Shoggoth Concerto! Cliff, funny. As for Judaism, exactly.
It was after the return from Babylon that the Jews, under Zoroastrian influence, recast their traditional faith in Axial Age form. The differentiation I made between natural and prophetic religions is rather different: a natural religion grows out of the religious experience of a people, and has no founder; a prophetic religion is created by a prophet as a rejection of the religious experience of his or her people.
The natural religion of Arabia worshiped Hubal, al-Lat, al-Uzzah, Manat, and various other deities who represented forces of nature; Islam rejected all this and, in the usual fashion of prophetic religions, replaced popular religious experience with obedience to a written book, which plays the same role and receives the same idolatrous reverence in prophetic religions as statues of deities play in many natural religions.
Some points may be valid, some are just plainly irrelevant. I did not notice anything that was flat out wrong. In my experience, this is standard for most people on his side of the fence. His arguments seem to boil down to 1 human co2 emission are only a small fraction of the natural co2 cycle. This means the water level will not change. Let us call this the natural flow of the system. Now finally lets say that you decide to add a thimble of water every minute. Let us call this the artificial flow. This is a tiny fraction of the natural flow, but it will cause the tub to overflow in due time because the ratio of natural inflow and outflow has not changed.
Why would natural changes disprove the existence of man made changes? There is noise natrual fluctuations and there is a man made signal. The two happily coexist. Half correct, because the shenenigans go on on both sides with equal enthusiasm, although the denier side seems to be better funded. At least here in australia.
Unsurprisingly, since australia is a chinese quarry a few thousand miles west of new zealand. Totally dependent on fossil fuels. Without CO2 there would be no plant life here hence except for a few extremophiles, the place would be empty and a bit more might actually improve plant growth. But that does not mean more is better without limits. CO2 has another beneficial side effect. Without it te average temperature of this planet would be well below freezing. We owe our very existence to the beneficial effects of CO2. Again, more is not necessaryly better. A few beers once in a while are enjoyable and healthy.
Two gallons a day might be too much for most of us. The planet has been much warmer for most of its history. So it will not be a problem at all for the biosphere. It has shrugged off much worse. What if china loses a few million acres of arable land whereas siberia gains? And there will be winners and losers.
And some of the losers might have guns and a really bad attitude. Any chance we could just shorten it to Johnson Hysteria? It sounds just a bit more British to my ear, and it would make a fine London tabloid headline. Would I be correct to think working through a magical system would be sufficient, or are there other exercises which would help with keeping my astral body strong and healthy? It was exhausting, and I stopped because I felt somewhat off.
I still feel off, not on a physical level, but close to it, which most likely is the etheric level. If this is the case, then working from analogy with the physical level, the best way to treat it is to rest, but are there other steps I can take to speed the healing process? David BTL — interesting. Wages here in Oklahoma have been fairly stagnant, especially with the current downturn in oil and gas. Let me ask it another way, the Roman empire was still growing in BC and expanded a lot over the next three hundred years. I know that we are talking about broad trends and that the details are going to be highly contingent on who does what at critical points, but I ask because you said that when a declining empire actually starts to build walls it is basically admitted defeat and the raids will be coming over the walls soon.
But I know that making predictions is hard, especially about the future. And, I know that a dozen years of study on the history of similar empires would inform me better, but can you humor me and give me your best guess at the nearest approximate metaphor to our present situation? And of those Most of the predictions assumed that present technology would be used in the future. For instance, in the s people were predicted to still be using video tape as an entertainment medium. Not one expert predicted climate change.
However, I own a textbook on meterorolgy from my college days, which was published in and it does predict climate change! In addition, world hunger would be solved. The expert who was asked to predict the future of physical fitness was runner and author Jim Fixx. He predicted that he would run a marathon at age He died in at age Correct predictions included: the development of the internet though it was not called the internet — the predictor stated that people would be able to share information with each other all across the globe using computer technology; and the fall of the Soviet Union though it was predicted to happen in the s.
Having looked over Book of Predictions and having found It was also interesting to see that the religion of progress was just as crazy in as it is now. Misty, thank you! Your Kittenship, not directly, no. Will J, 1 the astral body is best cleansed and strengthened with magical or religious rituals. I have been on a bit of a forest hiking bender for the last two days because I took the week off for my birthday and the weather has been pleasant.
The first place I went was my local Arboretum. It was a beautiful day, so the place was teeming with families there to see an exhibit of large wooden troll statues that are randomly stuck on various parts of the trail, kind of like the Pokemon Go game…. But I digress. So at any rate, pretty much every single kid there was in full-on BRAT mode.
I counted at least seven different families where kids were melting down. Screeching, crying, yelling, destroying, tantrum-ing. A woman could not get her kids to cooperate near the beautiful formal gardens. Oy vey. Heaven forbid they slow down and enjoy the butterflies and fireflies we are all ostensibly there to see.
I saw a magnificent heron land in a dead tree. They are like a dog worrying a bone when another dog is eyeing him. Their upper middle class prosperity is fragile even if they cannot genuinely appreciate it. The ones with children have it the worst, of course, because they are the most over invested in the posh life with the most at stake. They are trying to squeeze the most they can out of the collective sponge before it dries out. The air of the fin de siecle is driving them mad. It is about a difference between you and Oswald Spengler. Can you elaborate this? I see some of the signs myself and tend to believe you anyway.
However, I have serious doubts about the outcome of Brexit… The centre of Western civilization seems to have a more competent elite compared to the periphery. They have responses for the populist surge. The poster child of this is Macron in France but there are equivalents in several places.
The European Parliamentary election and its aftermath is very instructive with federalist neoliberals as the biggest winners. It seems to me that the same thing is happening in Britain. British eccentricity will be eventually lost to the uniformization of decline. The Brexit gridlock might be one of its last grand expressions, only to be swept away with cold clever tricks… What do you think? Spiritual commands us to look up to other plants, animals and creatures living with us and to consider them living communities, exactly like mankind.
God created earth and all creatures living on it in due proportion and measure. So protection, conservation and development of the environment and natural resources is an obligatory Spiritual duty to which everyone should be dedicated any deliberate or intentional damage to the natural environment and resources is a kind of mischief or corruption that is forbidden.
The feedback has been very positive. Easy when you have near limitless amounts of hydroelectricity to play around with! Larry Dossey has done a lot of work with prayer for healing. William Braud has done a lot of work here. Can we have more details or reference books on the matter? It looks like another dimension to history I was not too aware of! It just burns. The hydrogen and oxygen are generated on the vehicle, roughly at the rate they are used.
So while there may be small buffer tanks, all you really have to carry is a tank of water for the electrolyser. This also removes the need for a hydrogen transport and refuelling infrastructure. All you need is a water supply along with your regular fuel. Water is a very convenient and dense store of hydrogen and oxygen, already perfectly proportioned for combustion.
Diesel, and especially methane, have flame speeds too low to deliver optimum performance in internal combustion engines, either from a power or emissions standpoint. A tiny injection of hydrogen and oxygen solves this problem and hurries things along nicely. Dear JMG, thanks for the answers! As for straightening out the mess this civilization will leave behind, I think it would begin with the next round of civilizations; CE is a bit late for this; it is a time in which the new civilizations after our civilization have themselves gone under.
Can you elaborate? Violet, the difficulty of finding like-minded people is probably due to the pronounced cultural fragmentation which is usual in late civilizations. Thwere are many subcultures, but they are quite specific and for one or the other person, there might be nothing really congenial.
Only among the leftward end of the political spectrum, but yes. Bad enough to make them realize that they really are the overly cranky minority. Although I seriously doubt that even that would quell the rancor. My oldest daughter, who spent all her professional life in California and was educated on the East Coast, took a very plum position here in Gainesville, FL, and had a lot of trouble in her first year. She did find the local PBS station. It was only when she realized or somebody told her that everything here was done through the churches, that she hunted again and joined the UU Church out here.
Also, on my first Thanksgiving visit, I was eager to see and check out the town and asked her about it on the 2-hr ride in from JAX. I, who am of an older order and have lived in places coastal and non-coastal, but none of them pretentious, yet, found it to be a clean, decent, very nice little town.
I had set my mouth for good old-fashioned Southern cooking. However, take heart and visit The Flying Biscuit. Order anything with biscuits. Chicken a specialty. BTW, she likes it fine now, after 4 years. I have read about the protests in Hawaii against the new observatory. One aspect seems to be that in astronomy, it is becoming increasingly difficult to get meaningful and interesting results despite using ever more complex and costly equipment. The preprints on arxiv. So the public perspective shifts, probably in tandem with the first stirrings of the Second Religiosity; the religious objections to building on sacred places become higher and science loses more of its prestige and appeal with time.
Nastarana I wish people would stop making Donald Trump right. The press rushes in to say Trump is wrong and racist reflexively, and then months later, it comes out he is right. So dumb! Trump attacked the Governor of Puerto Rico for being corrupt after the hurricane. Well he just resigned and protestors said government officials were stealing hurricane aid. Trump was right. Disagree with Trump all you want, but no need to use such foul language.
Trump said if you have such great ideas, go back, fix your country, and then come back here and tell us how it went. Cortez does nothing but attack Trump on twitter day after day since her election. Every day she is having an existential crisis over this President. What she is doing for her actual constituents I have no idea, but she is now the defecto head of the Dems. Pressley is busy attacking the Black Caucus which is odd.
But her Trump attacks are just normal grumbling. Trump just included her without singling her out. Do you not remember how Trump attacked John McCain relentlessly? His Republican rivals? His attacks are consistently in retaliation. The media has destroyed themselves the last three years in throwing everything they could at Trump, working alongside the Democrats to do it. They do exactly what they accuse Trump of doing, but it looks worse when they do it. The other side are not victims, but right there in the mud with him.
They only occurred in one region or another, not everywhere at once. America until years or so later. My brother, who I think would do well up here to WI but for various personal reasons is staying in northern FL for now, has a girlfriend whose family is from there. Her mother described something similar. As Ibikeec mentioned, this part of the Midwest seems to be in a good spot in terms of the balance of wage-strength and cost of living.
And, for now at least, jobs are here for the taking. My wife and I went through a smaller town this past weekend and I spotted a sign out in from of a manufacturing plant advertising for open interviews. It is very possible to live modestly here on a reasonable wage. To his supporters who pay attention! Trump seems honestly proud of his efforts at uplifting the black community. Trump is a civic nationalist.
He is most emphatically not an ethnic nationalist, regardless of what his critics might say. Anyone on the alt-right who jumped on board the bandwagon of civic nationalism is doing fine. Those who cling to their resentments and ethnic ideals are swinging back to the fringes at least as fast as they became relevant.
Both sides still use Kek and Pepe memes, last I checked. Across the isle, the fringe left is slowly learning how to meme, I think. Unfortunately their best memes are about antifa street violence. Violet, Not sure about negativity here. My personal anxiety levels have been high. Many things are wearing out and breaking at the same time. So we will probably get a Brexit exactly one day before Samhain respective Halloween. My qualified libertarianism makes a more subtle distinction re the role of government, but certainly one of the key functions of a national government with respect to a national economy is framing that economic activity for the benefit of the citizenry of that nation as a whole.
I am something of an economic nationalist and as I like to point out, modern economic thought has it backwards: it is the role of a national economy to serve the people of the nation, not the role of the people to serve the national economy! If the Democrats want to win over working class voters, they can start by acknowledging that fact. I see little evidence that such an acknowledgment is forthcoming. Your Kittenship, no idea when projected recession due, although the meetings were called very suddenly. Nestorian, while much of what Denninger says is true, it is — or through careful social engineering, it has been made to be — a political issue composed entirely of thought-stopping phrases.
That put in perspective the human effect, which may be relevant but can be vetoed by nature in an afternoon. Speaking of, nature loves CO2 and for most of history it has been higher, and there was no runaway effect. In addition the highest times for human population and culture have been the hottest periods, not the cold ones. Aside from being conquered and enslaved by their neighbors in a few short years, at the very minimum a too-fast transition would lead to several hundred million human deaths. So we are going to kill everyone on the planet to save everyone on the planet?
For example, the U.
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Market forces. You need wealth and profits and free BTUs to invest in expensive changes that will only pay off later on. This may be counter-intuitive, but it happens regularly since before Malthus was wrong in So cheer up there, too. So all the shouting and fear is pointless. Nobody is going to do anything any faster because it would kill a million people, including themselves, their nation, their children, and their fortune.
On the other hand, a LOT of work is being done at a fever pace, and things continue to change rapidly, but rotating in smoothly, such as the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt. Despite states including Europe attempting to outlaw it — which would unnecessarily kill a few million more, almost-entirely poor people — nobody is going to stand for such ignorant trollop, and society will shout down dangerous as per the number of certain deaths environmental zealots, while, despite their ire and destruction, actual engineers build an actual working system that actually reduces carbon without adding, say, nuclear.
That being so, neither worry about it, or waste time with pointless shouting, but do what you can in your own life to make it better, happier, and easier, and beat the rush. Not at all. Untipo this is why unbacked-debt generally by a monopolistic central bank is so dangerous. As soon as they start unbacked credit, anyone who recklessly and foolishly borrows can buy new equipment and out-compete the prudent and sane, and ultimately buy their competition with borrowed money and run all prudent and sensible people out of business until the whole market is a mania of raving nonsense, unmoored from all economic reality.
Epstein follows. You can make the same money they do on the same laws they put in motion, and use most of the same tax loopholes. Since they wrote the laws, you are now required to, or lose everything. All sides have their respective spin-machines revved up now in the wake of the Mueller hearings, but it seems to me that it came off as a non-event over-all.
My sense is that the Dems have squandered a lot of time, effort, and political capital with yet another whiff. What is your take? And the internal squabble for the nomination is starting to heat up. It looks like Biden is hitting back. Your suggestion of the self-defeating circular firing squad is looking more probable, though we are a ways out still. Not holding my breath, however. I had the opportunity to share a lot of my visual memories as well. This one with James and one of our 'discussions' about how the race should be run.
I don't remember the exact details of this discussion but knowing James he did what he wanted anyway! My thanks to Steve Wyatt, Chairman and Organiser, who kindly invited me and now includes me on his roll of honour. Also thanks to everyone that came along, listened and laughed along with me - it was a great night! During his conversation with the TV and radio legend, Alastair talked car racing, movie making and, of course, self storage. It is not long since Alastair returned from completing the month-long Trans-America car rally, and Anne was keen to hear about his amazing adventure.
As is typical of Alastair, rather than relying on modern motoring technology to help him on his journey, he chose to complete the endurance challenge in style, driving a Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud. Oh, and, like any good son, he also took his 94 year old mother along for the ride too! As Alastair reminisced about his time leading the Maclaren Formula One racing team in the s, Anne asked how a boy from New Zealand, with little in the way of qualifications, could rise to such an enviable position. As Anne and Alastair chatted about all things motor racing, the listeners may have been wondering if this is the same guy that owns and runs Space Station, the longest established self storage company in the UK.
But then it all started to make sense. Alastair explained how he had first encountered the concept of self storage in Long Beach, California. He used the facility to store his Grand Prix car. Starting in , with rows of painted shipping containers, Alastair became the first person in Britain to offer that kind of self storage facility.
Once again, that same drive, determination and a passion for the job meant that Alastair found himself in pole position in a whole new industry. Previous 1 Next. I don't really have any answers to these questions I don't think you can get that divide without You've got the preconditions with the west's need for oil and the installation of the House of Saud. But they need to come here and kill a lot of us to gain our attention. Would they be transitioning to a carbonless economy?
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Maybe advanced solar panel are beyond their reach to start but wind and tidal are pretty much mechanical devices already in use. Would they say no to nuclear or go down the path of more than ever? Given the Soviet Union is becoming China will capitalism just keep on going despite signs today that we should be doing something different? Will there be some sort of socialist capitalism model that doesn't end in the ever widening gap between rich and poor?
What happened to other wars that would have occurred already ie Korea, or starting soon ie Vietnam? Didn't happen or subsumed into WW3. Big Oil is in the middle of destroying LA's trams. I don't see them letting solar get a foot in. But I'd like it happen, so maybe it will. Even as late as the 50s not all oil folks were part of the Big Bad. Southern USA would still have wildcatters and rugged individualists getting out and about into parts of the world where the drilling might be good in search of a plucky fortune. So a character like THAT taking an interest in solar would be interesting.
Suggest a google earth sweep of West Texas even now They might actually do some fighting in the streets and Pete Townsend wont need to write 'wont get fooled again'. Also pete townsend might get influenced by the likes of Millions of Dead cops and Black Flag and bring hardcore punk rock to the 60s, instead of RnB.
Crustie punks organising raves and house music in the 50s and 60s would be a fun idea too. Corduroy might not make an appearance in the fashion world. Could possibly lead to even MOAR socialism as they try to embed the political culture. Vaccines, birth control, anti-biotics, big pharma! I'm seeing a rush for raw materials. I believe there are only three major lithium mines in the world, all in South America. I'd definitely be trying to own them to control the development of batteries and therefore portable devices.
The battle for Australia's natural resources, including uranium, could get ugly with China on the doorstep and no big brother with a nuclear bomb to back us up.
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I see a massive acceleration of an already massive migration program to Australia, possibly leading to some tension with other English speaking countries for poaching their population. When was the great Greek immigration wave to Oz? With Greece occupied, it would mean in this time line less, or more like boatpeople. Greeks fleeing via Turkey for example. But there are a lot of people adrift I think. Will the other war-ravaged economies open their doors to cheap foreign labor?
Well Germany still exists, but the Turks came in the 60's after the Italians and Spanish. I suspect there would be a big push from many sides of the political spectrum to make all uptime tech and ideas non patentable and non-copyrightable. There endeth Slim Jim's empire. And there would be lots of vested interests that want that tech but don't want to have to pay for it. So I'd imagine that for a while, it would be a free for all in which everything in a non copyrightable knock-off.
Essentially it would be the 50s on steroids in the 50s. And then you would start to see the glimmer of new 21C tech which would be the real gold. I see patents and copyright law failing in the face of this, but Slim Jim's first mover advtange and his natural douchiness will stand him in good stead.
With all of the other 21C information making its way back it would be impossible to believe that a full set of patent applications would not have and as such it would be prior art in any attempt to capitalise on it by protecting it. As you say SJD would by being the early mover. Friends in high places would also help. I see Australia having more extensive territories. Perhaps Malaysia, Singapore and hell yes, Bali too.
Given an intake of locals, our tech which nobody seems to have mentioned. The US cannot do all the work in Asia, maybe some additional bases too, Brunei and Sarawak as additional Australian states territories Can see a tap into the labor markets in Asia too. Given the push by the ruskies, chrissy Island gets a big arse airfield too. RAAF base. It's got me wondering about the British Empire. Would it break up the way it did? I think the British might have learned some uptime lessons and would have pushed for a more Federal form of the Commonwealth of Nations and hopefully have handled self-rule devolution better than in our timeline.
Not forgetting Lebanon, which in the 50's was a tourist hotspot. And with a divided France would North Africa even be a French concern? And what has happened to the big C21 items by then? Especially with the leap the Havoc gave the sub designers, which the Sovs didn't get.
The Holy Qur’an as a Miracle
With that big a Soviet penetration post WW2. Possible something along the lines of the Swiss model, but with a lot more man portable anti- armour. Australia would be booming even more than it did in out timeline. They know where the major resources are. There would be even more post war European migration. Can't see the white Australia policy being repealed. If they're smart, massive constriction aid to Indonesia and assisting Damiri to consolidate his authority.
Well for starters JB referenced in Rome the Principalities. So an undivided India maybe federalized but on a leech from London. On subs: true uptime research will be used. But the soviets would lag behind in technology I think. So they will take the obvious route: build inferior subs, like Whiskey, Romeo, Foxtrot or Tango, but build them in huge numbers hulls.
Fight NATO until they run out of torpedo's so to say. On mobilization: i concur on personal weapons for reservists. That way you are more mobile. The thing about the British is our inate conservatism which combines with a surprising tolerance and liberalism. This is at our best, of course. Unfortunately we can do bigotry as well. British history is a story of evolution rather than revolution.
We change, but we do it at arelatively gentle pace. This is why we avoided the revolutionary excesses of France and the continent. The interesting issue here is how the arrival of thousands of time travellers from the 21st Century would affect the evolutionary process. Personally I think the pragmatists would realise that all was up withe the Empire as it stood - plenty of people realised this even at the time. The future would lie in forging partnerships with the USA, Australasia and other like minded countries, while offering the rest of the Empire independence, although trying to manage the process to maintain stability.
Britain would recognise that they were the one European power able to join America in forging the future. Germany was bombed and defeated, while France is partially occupied. A world will emerge with the west dominated to a much greater extent by the "Anglosphere" than in OTL. It's the English speaking world against the communists. Socialism as we knew it in the post war decades would have its credibility largely removed when people saw the record of what would have happened stagnation, strikes, etc. Equally, the crusty Conservatism of the same period would be likely to give way much earlier to a Thatcherite free-market liberalism.
Classless capitalism will emerge thirty years early, and the country would be much richer as a result, especially as continental European rivals would be less of a threat thanks to the new post-war map and Asian rivals occupied by the Russians. Domestically we would see the rise of the teenager faster than happened in OTL. Also, the rise of gasp sex. The example of the uptimers would bring forward pressure to legalise homosexuality and abortion, the acceptance of pre-marital sex and loads of pornography circulating through the new technological platforms.
Evolution would come under strain as older people born in the reign of Queen Victoria come face to face with gay clubs and porn mags. A greatly exaggerated generation gap would be likely to develop. Having said that, most of the rest of the world would happily swap their problems for those experienced by the British, Americans and Australians. On the sexual revolution I tend to agree with the The Rhino that the example of the uptimers might do the exact opposite of bringing forth the legalisation of gay marriage etc. I suspect there'd be a heap of push back.
Although, of course, you would indeed have, er, push forward from the uptimers. Oh sure there will be friction on sex. But in this time frame you will already have forerunners. Hugh Hefner started Playboy in well he wouldn't have to advertise now. Masters and Johnson started their research in And sure, you won't be kicking of in Salt Lake city or in de deep south bible belt like west Texas. The social and religious effects could be really interesting to explore Would Vatican II happen early? Or, happen at all? Could there be a schism within the Catholic Church over future events? What would L.
Ron Hubbard do, presented with future history concerning Scientology? What about all of the other aspiring prophets, gurus, etc. Someone mentioned lithium mining, where a couple operations in South America currently dominate world supply due to cost of production. Industrial development is really difficult to predict Future information about health and environmental consequences might have an effect depending on social and economic pressures in particular countries.
Asbestos might stay in the ground and electricity generation will look a lot different. From a public health perspective, the late 's or 50's might be early enough to prevent or severely curtail the spread of HIV. Information about broad-spectrum antibiotics might curtail the development of antibiotic resistance, or advance widespread resistance a couple decades. And then Vatican II can happen. And even more expanded even then now. Child abuse: no tolerance. Celibacy: there are to many sexual frustrated people in the clergy male and female so let the have a spouse.
A gay one may be a step to progressive but kick it around. Agree on the health and safety things. Cancer research and trauma-care get also a kick from free 70 years of experience. Smallpox irradication, child innoculation and polio prevention On the other side of the coin, will there be a push towards revival of Russian Orthodoxy to undermine the Soviet rule?
Or will Stalin emulate China and just say, "Sure, you can have your bishops - but the state picks them. My 2-bits for modern utopia: If you take research on what drives society, you will get a few parameters that have huge impacts. Sanitation and Healthcare 4. Political, Religious and economic organization 6. Let's meet Jan Modaal, your average European male in general, your average dutch male in particular. Born in , Jan was 28 in After his two years of national service in , he married Truus, a local girl from more or less the same background he was.
Reading a book was rare. They were the only learned men in the community. In the meantime, Truus would raise the kids, do the washing, cleaning, sowing, cooking, a little gardening, the shopping at the local butcher, baker and grocer supermarkets were not invented yet over here , look after their parents who would be living on walking distance and be dead tired in the evening.
But she was dependent so divorce was not an option. Also the social pressure of the time would keep her down. Before they were married, she had worked as a shop assistant, but was kicked out when she said "I do". Weren't it not for the war Jan would have statistically lived to be around 64 Truus to Out of a population of around 9 million, around in our timeline around For the most part those casualties were Jews around Here the first change kicks in: being liberated totally in September without the destruction of for example Zealand and Arnhem instead of may , would have resulted in around Also Dutch infrastructure Rotterdam harbor, dykes in the southwest and factories wouldn't have been that hard hit.
So let's say we are in January and the following things happen: 1. This will lead to a more positive stance towards Israel. Disclosure of abuse in clergy. This led to an accelerated loss of faith in the church and falling numbers of believers. Re-education keeps your workers-class occupied, gives them a chance to better themselves, and increases your international competitive edge. So it will invest in harnessing that first, but at the same time renewing it's infrastructure and housing-stock to be prepared for the "Green Revolution".
So the new burroughs in Holland, will be built for installing solar paneling by having roofs facing south, so that in years time around the 's oil crisis you can upgrade very fast and cheaply. Infrastructural ducts built in the new streets and upgraded to those parts of the country worth saving, would make a fast outroling of natural gas piping or block heating and telecommunication also very cheap and fast for the future.
Further gains would be made by building up an National electricity grid with a lot of spare capacity, and going from V to Volts 20 years ahead of time. This to make electricity production and distribution more efficient and less prone to malfunction. Rotterdam, Vlissingen, Amsterdam en Delfzijl harbors are expanded en made ready for container shipping and for Reforger type troop movements.
Extra land is created in the former Zuiderzee, by making not only the Flevopolders but also the Markerwaard ready for population and agriculture. The Flevopolders were ready in , the Markerwaard will be in the early sixties. And that extra real estate is needed too with the baby-boom and migration. Running water, the introduction of a National health insurance and a abide watered down National Pension Scheme did the rest to boost life expectancy from 64 before the war to well over 70 in the early fifties. With the decline of the clergy, anti conception came available in Abortion, pornography and euthanasia were legalized in , followed by prostitution and canabis in The growth of the latter was strictly state controlled but highly lucrative.
Political, Religious and economic organization and 6. With new technical insights and Marshall aid, production in agriculture increased 5 fold in only a couple of years. This leading to full employment in , the Dutch started to import cheap German, Spanish and displaced Italian and French workers. Moroccan, Turkish, Surinamese and Antillian migrants were no longer an option. Futher investment in education and science helped to harness those patents and create the Dutch Wirtschaftswunder, surpassing even that of the German one. The Soviets dumping household appliances toasters, vacuum-cleaners, washing-machines had a couple of effects though.
Phillips would have gotten overrun by those cheap stuff and would more concentrating on electronics and medical systems, boosting research in those fields. And women's rights with a lightening of their workload would be springloaded too. Was Stalin a secret feminist, did he saw this as a way to destabilize the west or was this just lucky? Indonesia: The Dutch are furious about the loss of Indonesia. In an intricate game of good cop Kollhammer and the Australian government vs.
Indonesian markets would stay open for Dutch imports to, the Dutch taking care also for distribution of Indonesian products in Europe. Moertopo, the pragmatist, chose to pay. As extra insurance the Dutch found and captured 2 out of the 3 main rivals to Moertopo, namely Soekarno and Hatta. They are put on trail for their role in the Japanese occupation and given life sentences at her majesties pleasure and shipped of to a penal colony in Surinam.
Every time Moertopo complains about the silver, he's asked if he thinks amnesty for those two would make for an nice Christmas gift Supplying Israel Ever the trading nation, but feeling having a debt to Israel for having aided in the deportation and killing of over a Making a small profit on the side wasn't frowned upon either.
Dutch agents all over the world scowered up surplus German, US and UK made arms, shipped them home, refurbished them and send them with ammo and spare parts straight to Tel Aviv and Eilat harbors. Israeli military personnel was also trained in the Netherlands and the Israeli arms and electronic industries given a shot in the arm by Dutch investment.
A breakthrough was the formation of the combined Benelux navy in latter also incorporating the German North Sea squadron. The Dutch, Belgian and nascent Luxembourgian Air Force also work closely together especially on training issues. And the Dutch arms-, shipping and aviation industry with the lack of German, Italian and partly French competition is booming. It also was part of the first group of European Community of Coal and Steel in and the subsequent European Free trade zone of The Dutch are in favor of even bigger steps, proposing a European Union in Though in favor of it, Churchill and to an lesser extant De Gaulle are dragging their feet about it, fearing a loss of influence.
Hmmm did I leave some stuff out? Of course, the large nickel, copper and gold mines in Indonesia would be very, very attractive to the Dutch government. Particularly since 10th generation nickel-pig iron technology would be available from the Up-Timers. Giving up Irian Jaya would be a tough choice, then, because of the Grasberg Mine.
Instead of refugees and war brides heading mainly to Canada, it would be dissenters from the new political and social order heading to The emigration of farmers which occurred in the late 20th century moves up a couple decades. Came to post the same thing about resorces in Aust. There'd be a minerals rush on all over Oz, and then hangover when state governments say "use it or lose it".
It's perhaps only a small thing, but I'd really like to see Alan Turing NOT being hounded to an early death by the British authorities on account of his homosexuality. Maybe the more liberal attitudes the Uptimers bring with them could alter the Establishment's behaviour sufficiently such that this doesn't happen? He could then go on to found an ARM-equivalent a few decades earlier than happened in our time. Agree about Turing. Give him a safe environment and a flexi-pad and who knows what contribution he could make to the war effort?
It raises an interesting point about resurrecting dead people, or rather, to stop them dying? Imagine George Orwell organising resistance cells behind Soviet lines? K's older, much more glamorous fly-boy brother, Joseph, becoming a admiral with political ambitions? There's also the possibility of turning former foes? Imagine a different foreign policy result where a Captain Heath equivalent could persuade Fidel and Che, or Ho Chi Minh, to use their charisma for the allied side? Finally, while the weather changed, we can assume that all geological events would play out as in the original timeline.
But that would change natural disasters for 70 odd years. Disaster response- and planning. Skopje mids, get the people out before it happens. The weather patterns changed, per Final Impact. Why wouldn't everything else? Valid point, Murph. Perhaps it did. My idea came from the perspective that a butterfly's flutter might cause a hurricane on the other side of the world, but landing a few extra ships may not have altered tectonic plate momentum or magma distribution? Agree on the tectonic plates and the quakes. The children of the 60's were raised by parents born after the depression.
They saw the birth of the juggernaut of the American Dream and lived much easier lives than those of their parents and were probably more open to the next level of evolution in society in the 60's. Since all of these societal changes are moved forward by a decade and a half, AND, exponentially disruptive as they are not arising organically, PLUS the young adults of the WW3.
I could see a very real threat to the cohesion of the union. Perhaps instead of the revolts of '68, we have the revolts of '58? And the likes of George Wallace get a counter-movement going? Yeah I can see some serious stresses. But it won't just be the US.
With uptimers mainly settling in Sydney, London as well as LA, you'll have 3 islands of 21C bobbing around in 50's ville. Maybe even more of a split between those cities and the rest. Yeah but, I think you overlook the appeal of the Shiny. Parents have jacked up at the "degeneracy" of Young People.
The injection of 7? I think Hollywood will at first have a field day with the movie possibilities that can be made, but then will balloon and oversaturate the market quickly. Stalin, of course, will not be outdone and will try to export movies of his own remember, he hated John Wayne with a vengeance. Something along the lines of East German cowboy movies that portrayed the Native Americans in a more positive light vis-a-vis imperialism. Sports will become a great industry. Jerseys will sell like hotcakes. Will there be a Champions League? There must. The Soviets may have a Fraternal Nations League as well.
Will basketball go worldwide? Video games? World at War type of stuff? Flight emulation? Sports simulation? Massive online RPGs? More sci-fi. More alt-history even in mainstream books. Books dealing with the aftermath of the war and the Transition. Probably less Tolkien-esque stuff. One has to wonder what would happen with the Civil Rights Movement.
It is all too easy to see a contemporary like Martin Luther King Junior reading about what happened after his death and perhaps coming to a different conclusion about how the Jim Crow South should be handled. Or if he doesn't, someone else might. Feminism, what happens there? Gender identity. They'll have a hard enough time dealing with the acceptance of a homosexual male or female. How will they handle transgendered? Apparently we do not have the ability to build paragraphs anymore at the Burger.
Separate posts it is then. Suburban Sprawl, something Kansas City suffers from. Does it pick up pace as a result of the realization that things like school desegregation are going to become a fact of life? Do city's sprawl outwards even faster, leaving the central cores a wasteland of the impoverished? How do city planners and managers handle that issue? See, I'm doing it now. I see a global scooter culture, like South East Asia, but more so. In short, I see far less cultural and national unity in a post-Transition United States circa mid s than was originally the case in our own timeline. It will also be far more difficult to paperover such issues with propaganda as was possible in the original timeline.
One final point, and relevant to the present day. Do Americans trust their government? In the original timeline there was a reasonable amount of trust for the Federal Government. After they learn about Nixon, McNamara, and a host of other issues, will that trust remain? I think the leaders of the United States are going to have a very chaotic, hot mess on their hands stateside. Their military woes will be the least of their concerns. I wonder if there might not be an earlier space race, but this time based on grabbing lunar and asteroid resources we now know exist but didn't back in the original timeline instead of science and national prestige.
In daily life and in culture: In music: maybe to early for a miniMoog, but some instruments will have hit the market: peddle steel guitar, the Les Paul would go into production in , but that could be advanced, as would the ESTD yep that's Lucille. Elvis started taking off in 55, but he could use a fitness regime. Does Gina de Marco still have room for extra curricular activities?
I think it would be to early for either Booker T. Cash was just out off the service in Germany, so he could be starting, as would Muddy Waters. The BeeGees started their first group in 55 and at ages 9 they could reach the notes in Staying Alive quite nicely I think. Books: Ernest Hemingway should stay out of bushplanes this time around, and have some psycho treatment. On stuff: shame Turin is Russian now; it's the home of espresso machines.
And a more healthy drivethru. I always fancied the idea of a boomer ending up in orbit- sub would make an excellent deep space craft once engines and a few things were added. Hollywood wise would cue on Capture Von Braun! Sounds like you're doing it wrong. On Human Sexuality: The up-timers bring a lot of things with them to the past the directly and indirectly impact this area.
And there are multitudes of small tangibles and intangibles also. All of these would have an effect on the past. These stable communities in turn became the first stop for young teens just exploring their own starting sexualities, and finding there are others with feeling that match that came before and gaining a normalized perspective earlier and thus advancing their own sexual wellness by years. They start having GOOD sex lives sooner, and that in turn gives them more room to explore, and the liberalization of sexual outlooks builds. The porn archives brought back will be massive.
Odds are just one person with an unusual fetish will have hundreds of media about it on a personal device will be common. The trauma of it would be massive to the young lady. Life changing. Heck, many young women post such images of themselves without a thought. The nudity taboo in America is being slow degraded by the web. And emboldened them to try. The future porn and other media will do the same. But some company is gonna want that sweet birth control market. The impact on the culture will be massive and very much a flash point. The huge majority of the population will quietly absorb the lessons and impact and become more liberal as they see how that line of thinking works for them surrounding their own sexuality.
But cultural power nodes The Church, Government institutions, so forth will be threatened on the public levels as they will see how all this undercuts them in the future and will try to stop it now. Morality police will be recruiting big time.
July 12222 Open Post
The war on sex will polarize into Us vs Them much faster, and be in of those core questions that people have to answer as to where they come down on. Dumping the entire load on a culture at once males it… difficult. Hef and Playboy will never happen. The climate will be totally different, and the field will be crowded.
It won. With a lot of uptime tech loose, someone would use it to get such shots. Though Hef might see a path. This has gotten too long. But sexuality and culture are in my wheelhouse of knowledge. I can say much more. I prob can't add anything useful but it's bloody interesting reading.
If i could put my hand up to push little markers around a table with a long stick i'll be happy. Should refresh my memory and fix up the current situation if recreational drug cartels around the world were mentioned. Drugs played a bit part in the sixties. Do the US try and crack down on it straight away, try and fix any mistakes or just make the same ones as before?
Does someone just go straight into production knowing the greed for it? Does everyone just go into production! Uptimers still depressed about dislocation and downtimers needing escape from current events. But, politics is the art of the compromise. Right gonna have to do a refresh. I still think some enterprising dictator might take advantage and work on supply. Where there's money to be made. Two-party politics is the conviction that all issues deconstruct to a continuum and that a compromise where the debate is balanced will be reached through some sort of Aristotelian moderation.
But sometimes the arsehats are just arsehats and no matter how carefully you deal with them, you will always end up with shit on your hands. Doesn't mean you don't have to, but it does mean it's not a pretty job. Laws and sausages I guess. Love it JB, like the old days where we battered ideas around till the moved through silly, past counterintuitive into Hmmm. Surely we've learned how to be more efficient and go straight to Hmmm? Wouldn't there be a run on keeping colonization of African nations a thing? You will need a lot of resources like rare earth metals, so the powers that be would want to hold on to territories like of, oh, say South African hello diamonds.
It's a continent with major resources and little opposition Except for rubber, the Sovs have all the metals and minerals they need. The cia via a front even bought titanium from them in the sixties to make SR's.